Was feeling good, now feeling terrible

Neuro

I started taking 520 mg of Eleuthero about 4 weeks ago and for the first 2 weeks I was having some relief from depression and emotional blunting. Some emotions were starting to come up to the surface. Though, the surface is like ice, some places the emotions can briefly peak but most of the time no emotions can arise.

Still, I thought it was a good sign and continued taking it. But I was having a lot of trouble sustaining focus. Attention was very unstable because of ADHD-PI. I added 500 mg of TMG and within 3 days I had a noticeable mood lift and some improvements in cognition. This lasted about 2 weeks.

Now, I'm feeling terrible. Well, I guess I'm just back to baseline.

Depression is back. My cognition is terrible again. I can barely think.

Maybe Eleuthero needs to be cycled but I don't like the initial effects it gives me. It definitely increases anxiety and makes me a lot more prone to stress during the first week or two. The benefits and side effects seem to come in a package.

Galaxyshock

Well that sucks. I remember reading that Eleuthero temporary raises certain stress hormones which is probably why it caused anxiety to you. Long-term it as an adaptogen should decrease stress though. Maybe try taking it with Gotu Kola to counter the negative initial effects?

Neuro

Galaxyshock Yeah, I think it raises cortisol. Adding another adaptogen sounds like a good idea.

In the previous months I tried it with Schisandra, but found Schisandra to cause apathy after a week or so. It also made me feel blunted in an odd way. It decreased anxiety but also decreased everything else.

It even decreased the effectiveness of caffeine and modafinil.

Does Gotu Kola also have this effect?

Galaxyshock

In my experience Gotu Kola is not blunting except in high doses. It is calming though but I don't find it decreasing effects of stimulants in normal doses. Overall I consider Gotu Kola a good "day-time tranquilizer" as it doesn't make you sleepy and it seems to synergize pretty well with other herbs and meds.

Neuro

Galaxyshock Overall I consider Gotu Kola a good "day-time tranquilizer"

Well-worded, it sounds like it's exactly what I need, something to tranquilize the mind. My mind gets agitated quite easily and I find it difficult to relax. It's not anxiety, it's restlessness I think.

I'm likely going to try it out now, you've convinced me hehe. 😀

I'll likely post a thread of the effects.

Galaxyshock

How you been lately? Any improvements?

Neuro

Thanks for asking, I stopped taking Eleuthero and TMG. Also stopped my entire stack except for Vitamin D and the occasional multivitamin.

Been taking folinic acid for 3 days now. First day was good, greatly improved focus, increased energy, and improved mood. Second day, the focus effect was pretty much gone and I was even more disinterested in doing things than usual. Third day, some improvements but a far cry from the first day.

Today is the fourth day and I didn't take folinic acid. Instead, I took adenosylcobalamin. Energy has increased so far but no real benefit towards anything else.

Folinic acid definitely feels similar to methylfolate but still differs in a way that I can't really explain. It doesn't seem to induce that robotic effect of methylfolate.

My reasoning behind taking it is for the lack of methyl in the structure. I think methylfolate transiently increases neurotransmitter production through BH4 and possibly SAM-e. Then it goes in the opposite direction, I think due to SAM-e, which increases COMT.

This may also explain why TMG stops working after a while as it primarily recycles SAM-e. The methylation cycle is too complex to steer in the intended direction.

Galaxyshock

I don't know much about the methylation cycle. I tried a methylated B-complex, I think it was Life Extension brand, couple years ago and it gave me both energy and calmness, though it also made my skin more oily.

Not sure what I could suggest. Over the years I believe you've tried a whole lot of different supplements and medications with varying results, it kinda seems like something is always missing? Wish there was a silver bullet med or herb that wouldn't have side effects or build tolerance, but I guess the real world ain't so easy.

Neuro

I started taking TMG again, but without Eleuthero. Taking it with ALCAR this time. I'm hoping it will improve my verbal fluency and decrease psychomotor retardation.

Not sure how long the positive effects will last. After this, I don't know if I'll up the dose to 1000 mg, rapidly cycle, or just stop altogether.

Galaxyshock

Feeling any better lately?

Neuro

Thanks for asking. I changed my stack and I'm feeling a bit better in some areas but worse in others. I've been mainly taking Saffron for the past 2 weeks. I'll make a thread about it.