Nicotine

Galaxyshock · 2014-11-04T07:37:39+00:00

Nicotine is quite unique stimulant because it's a parasymphatomimetic. I found some nicotine gum (2mg) in my closet that I bought like a year ago to experi...

Galaxyshock

Yeah arginine alpha-ketoglutarate is a common ingredient for boosting nitric oxide, but I've read that L-citrulline is even better at raising arginine levels and therefore nitric oxide. Some herbs increase nitric oxide synthesis too, Ginseng for example.

Neuro

Never knew Ginseng affects nitric oxide, interesting.

On the other hand, you should probably check your stack to see if anything decreases nitric oxide. For instance, hydroxocobalamin is a nitric oxide scavenger: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1046/j.1468-2982.2002.00412.x

It's probably unlikely your stack may include something that decreases nitric oxide. But it's a good idea to be well informed regardless.

Galaxyshock

I've used Nicotine gum for almost 6 months now and it still works at 2 mg. I still find it improves focus and mood, and reduces anhedonia. No major side effects.

Neuro

That's pretty amazing. Would you say the effects are still as strong during the early days, weaker, or perhaps even stronger?
Have you noticed any additional benefits from chronic usage?

Galaxyshock

Well the effects are more subtle, but that's a good thing. Initially 2 mg Nicotine gum felt too strong and caused dizziness and nausea. Now pretty much the only side effect seems to be mild increase in hand sweating. I'd say chronic usage has sort of "programmed" me to be more active as I find myself more interested in different things. I even started reading an old book I had in shelf, and I don't really ever read books lol.

Problem with the gum is that it releases the Nicotine content within 30 minutes and the effects fade away in like an hour. So if I want the effects to last all day I have to chew plenty of those gums. Maybe I should try a Nicotine patch as one patch should last like 16 hours.

Neuro

Interesting, did you get an urge to read the book before chewing the nicotine gum? Or did you start reading and then chew the gum to "program"" yourself to read books?

How are you chewing the gum? I think some people keep it in their mouths and periodically chew it to sort of make it sustained release.

Aren't patches expensive? Also, there's the potential for skin irritation. Perhaps it might even cause tolerance compared to the short-acting effects of the gum?

Galaxyshock

Well I had it in mind to start reading that book but kinda had lack of initiative. Then one time when I was chewing Nicotine gum I felt like doing something so I opened the book and read plenty of pages. After that I would read it also without chewing Nicotine gum. So I guess it sort of helped me overcome that lack of initiative and showed me I can in fact enjoy reading a book.

Yeah I try to chew it periodically, that's actually adviced in that instruction paper that comes with the package.

I'm not sure how expensive Nicotine patches are, I'll have to look into it. Yeah I guess it could cause more tolerance, maybe I should save it for days when I really need the effects to last all day.

Neuro

After you do something new on nicotine do you find you get a deeper and persistent interest in the topic or is it shallow and fades with time? Do you think nicotine can also help "program" you to learn new skills and to keep learning even when it gets difficult?

If you do end up using the patches either update this thread or make a new one. It'd be interesting to know how they compare in terms of effects.

Galaxyshock

Well the interest does tend to fade with time but I think some mental imprint stays that tells me the topic is still interesting and it's my anhedonia that tries to tell it's not. Yeah I can see nicotine helping with learning new skills. I recently started playing a free online war game called War Thunder, shall see how I learn to play it?

I have one 25 mg / 16 hour Nicotine patch I bought years ago. It has expired 09/2020 but I would guess it still works? I'll try it one of these days.

Neuro

Do you still use Nicotine? How are you finding it nowadays? Did you try the patch? Have you changed the dose/frequency?

Do you still play War Thunder? Have you found Nicotine to be helpful in learning it, or just general enjoyment?

Galaxyshock

Yeah I still use Nicotine. It still works but the effects have become a bit weaker. I sometimes use two gums (=4 mg) these days. Kinda have to chew those gums throughout the day if I want the effects to last. I haven't tried the patch yet, I've been meaning to but have the lack of initiative again.

I actully stopped playing War Thunder. Kinda lost interest again. I also haven't been reading books anymore. So while Nicotine gives some temporary relief my anhedonia is still there and makes me lose interest in things I sort of know I can enjoy. Anhedonia is a struggle as you know.

Neuro

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, anhedonia sucks. The term anhedonia doesn't even describe its consequences. I'd say it's more like soul deficiency syndrome even though I don't believe in the concept of souls. Objectively speaking, the person is still alive but they are almost lifeless, especially with chronic and severe anhedonia.

I'm not sure if the patch would be helpful in this regard.

Perhaps you can try something to withdraw from the Nicotine to reset tolerance? I don't know how long you'd have to stop the Nicotine for, perhaps a month or a few weeks would be sufficient?

Bupropion is used for Nicotine cessation under the brand name Zyban.

Have you tried agmatine with Nicotine?

Galaxyshock

Yeah chronic and severe anhedonia is disabling condition. Luckily my anhedonia isn't as bad as it was years ago, at least the consummatory part. I mean I can enjoy things like music and movies. I don't really expect to enjoy them, but once I hear music that I like I can find it beautiful and uplifting. So I still definitely have motivational/anticipatory anhedonia, and my emotions are quite flat. Panax Ginseng I think helps with the flat affect.

I guess a tolerance break from Nicotine would be a good idea. I think a few weeks should be enough.

I haven't tried agmatine with Nicotine, not sure if I can buy agmatine here in Finland.

Neuro

Any updates on this? Are you still using Nicotine?

I received a sample in the mail for a patch and some gum, Nicorette brand. The weird thing is I didn't request a sample so I have no idea why it was sent to me lol.

I still have some gum from my previous sample but it was sent probably over 4 years ago.

Have you tried the patch?

Galaxyshock

Yeah I still use Nicotine. I've built tolerance so the effects are quite subtle now, but it still lifts my mood, improves focus and decreases anhedonia or at least makes me more interested in things.

I tried the patch. The effects were more stable and lasted all day. I might buy some more Nicotine patches as it may be better for days when I don't want to chew those gums all day but want the benefits of Nicotine.

drma3

I think modulating the nicotinic subsites directly with partial agonists or PAMs is more desirable and has more potential than just using nicotine and activating all of the nicotinic receptors. The addictive qualities just make it not worth it for me. I think a good combination of selective nicotinic modulators would be an α7 partial agonist (like Tropisetron or VQW-765) combined with a α4β2 partial agonist or PAM (such as dFbr or abt-089).

Galaxyshock

drma3

Nicotine as gum isn't particularly addictive, patches even less so. But I do get your point, are those partial agonists or PAMs available anywhere?

Galaxyshock

I went off Nicotine for couple of days because I was low on money. Felt somewhat fine but definitely missed that dopaminergic boost of Nicotine. I still see it as a valuable tool to fight anhedonia and low motivation / lack of initiative.

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